Podcast Parade: A Conversation with Tim Keller

Reflections on Leadership and Essential Need for Communion with God

I have two memories of Tim Keller. One he was present for, the other he gave me a gift.

The first was simply a quick funny story. I and a few other Boyce College and Southern Seminary students piled into a local PCUSA church to hear Tim speak on his recent book Counterfeit Gods. I had not read the book —that comes in the second story. But I showed up incredibly early to hear from Tim Keller and saved seats. My fellow students were incredibly late, and at one point I literally turned away an elderly couple who were searching the packed auditorium for a place to sit. The husband struggled with his walker, and his wife worked to steady him while also searching for a respite in the pews. I turned them away — honestly a bit exasperated.

When my friends finally arrived, I rather loudly chastised them, saying “I literally had to tell a guy who could barely walk no! Thanks a lot guys!!”

The pastor of the church soon after quieted the excited and packed auditorium, and encouraged us all to stand and greet our neighbors.

To my dismay, I turned around to see the elderly couple, not so happy with my comments. I awkwardly apologized. But by the end of the evening, I seem to recall after Tim’s gracious and wise and wonderful lecture, we reconciled.

My second story is brief. Not too long afterwards, I was dating my now wife and we quickly got engaged. While my wife was in her hometown searching for wedding dresses my father-in-law and I went to a local bookstore. It was there I picked up Counterfeit Gods, and in one sitting finished reading it while my father-in-law browsed the store. To the say the least, I think he was impressed. He probably doesn’t even remember it now (I’ll have to ask him), but I know I was pretty impressed myself.

I read the book another 3-4 times.

All that being said, I have been so incredibly grateful for the life and legacy of Tim Keller. I had another podcast episode I was going to highlight today, but I wanted to post this one as an opportunity to honor him.

The Rise & Fall of Mars Hill Bonus Episode

I think this episode with Mike Cosper is just a great example of who Tim Keller was as a person. He was willing, as a “celebrity pastor,” to go on and really deal with in a humble and honest way some of the challenges around what had been created by the evangelical industrial complex.

There’s a powerful and convicting moment in the conversation where Tim talks about how he’s been able to not “fall” like so many other leaders.

“You’ve got to have some people in your life who exhort you daily because sin will always blind you, the deceitfulness of sin always blinds you. So who is it in your life that actually is authorized to come talk to you, look at you, really rake you over the coals if necessary?

I think in the earlier days of my ministry, that was extraordinarily important.

It’s awfully helpful if one of those people, you happen to be married to, because they can see things that nobody else can see.

He also hits hard at the tendency of platforming people based solely on their gifting, and continuing to allow them to lead despite a lack of fruit — sometimes because it’s financially lucrative. I remember being blown away by his speaking truth into this situation.

That’s mistaking the operation of gifts for the work of spiritual fruit and grace in your life. And this is happening all over the place. And here’s the frightening thing. The people in closest to the person, they see the lack of fruit. The people out here, they can only see the gifts. So they see the lack of fruit, they see the grumpiness or the abusiveness or the anger or the pride or the self-centeredness and all that, and they start to lose their respect for the leader. But as soon as they start to criticize - the people out here who don’t see that, they only see the gifts - they just attack anybody who criticizes. You saw that. And it’s all because the gifts of grace thing, the people in close see the lack of grace, the people out here can only see the gifts. And unfortunately, very often the people up here who are trying to keep the operation going, they see the lack of grace, but they also know that they can’t financially afford anything other than just keeping this person in power. So as I was listening to your stuff on Mars Hill, that was the other thing I wanted to say besides… I’ve mentioned a number of things here, but I thought that’s something I needed to add. I hope you find that helpful.

This is a short conversation he has, but I think it’s an important one. I hope you’ll give it a listen (or re-listen) as you remember the life and legacy of Tim Keller.

Thank you Tim. See you soon.